Posts by Marvin Shilmer

24

ROYAL COMMISSION: ARE JWS TAUGHT TO REFRAIN FROM SWEARING ON THE BIBLE OR NOT? JW.ORG PLEASE EXPLAIN!

by steve2 in

during yesterday's rc proceedings (wednesday 5th august 2015), one of the victim's lawyers questioned mr vincent toole, the jw organization's legal counsel for the australian branch office.

she asked him why at least two of the jw elders who gave evidence last week refused to swear on the bible.

mr toole appear puzzled by her question and said he did not know.

Marvin Shilmer

steve2,

There is another more specific historical and doctrinal reason why some JWs are apprehensive about giving testimony under an oath to tell the truth.

We all heard Toole claim ignorance to Watchtower's Theocratic War Strategy (TWS) question. (Sideline: Toole said he had not read the 1950s era Watchtower addressing this in detail since he was baptized in the 70s. Unfortunately the RC lawyer was apparently unaware that in the 1980s there was a Watchtower article citing this doctrinal position, and presumably Toole would have read this and at least wondered what that term meant.) So, getting back on track, Toole denied knowledge of TWS as a doctrinal position. But it turns out there is a peculiar twist to Watchtower's TWS doctrine. That doctrinal position EXPRESSLY allows outright deception by knowingly giving false information but just as EXPRESSLY it prohibits giving false information if the JW is under a sworn oath to tell the truth. Older JWs are certainly familiar with this, and as a practicing JW attorney Tools should be. So, a JW can be intentionally dishonest in order to 'protect the interests of the kingdom' UNLESS he or she is under a sworn oath to tell the truth. THEN the JW is prohibited from being intentionally dishonest for any reason. In the latter case the JW would have to refuse to answer and face punitive measures accordingly IF they were asked for information that would compromise 'interests of the kingdom' but did not want to give up the information. This because TWS doctrine requires telling the truth when under a sworn oath to tell the truth.

Hope that helps.

15

If Jackson is not available due to compassionate reasons, can other GB member take his place?

by Viva la Vida in

jw
friends

i would think the only christian organization on this planet would be more than willingly send another gb member to australia in order to answer rcs questions, taking the place of jackson who is taking care of his ill farther.

.

if someone should show compassion to jackson those are his gb pals.

Marvin Shilmer

There are three options:

1. The health of Jackson's father improves. In this case the health of his father will cease to be a reason why Jackson cannot make himself available for a few hours of testimony before the Royal Commission.

2. The health of Jackson's father lingers at the present state. In this case Jackson will presumably find away to continue carrying on with life and will no longer have to holed up wherever he is, which would mean Jackson should be able to make himself available for a few hours of testimony before the Royal Commission.

3. Jackson's father expires. In this case the health of his father will cease to be a reason why Jackson cannot make himself available for a few hours of testimony before the Royal Commission.

If Jackson leaves Australia without testifying before the Royal Commission and does so despite the Royal Commission desiring to hear his testimony, the his departure will be nothing short of fleeing the jurisdiction in order to avoid giving testimony in public and under oath.

And, unlike what Watchtower's attorney has said, there is a caveat to Watchtower's Theocratic War Strategy doctrine having to do with testimony given under oath. Under Watchtower doctrine once a JW places him or herself under a sworn oath to tell the truth then WHATEVER they say has to be true. To put it another way, once a JW places him or herself under a sworn oath to tell the truth Watchtower doctrine forbids them from offering deceptive testimony.

68

My thoughts on Geoffrey Jackson

by thedepressedsoul in

first off, i don't think that dude is going to show face.

he's most likely on a plane already.

if he shows it's bad pr and if he doesn't show it's bad pr.

Marvin Shilmer

Given representations made to the RC, if Jackson leaves Australia without submitting to answer questions before the RC it will demonstrate utter contempt and deceitfulness of what the RC has been told as to why Jackson need not present to be questioned. Either he shows up and lets himself be questioned or else he fails to show up and deceit will be demonstrated. It's that simple.

12

Australian branch co-ordinator Terrence O'Brien gets called out for lying to the Royal Commission

by Mickey mouse in

watch from 1:47:00 as angus stewart of the royal commission investigation into child abuse calls out the australian branch co-ordinator for lying about geoffrey jackson's role on the governing body.

.

Marvin Shilmer

The chair needs to issue a summons for Jackson. It may be the last (only!) chance he gets to have one of Watchtower's top decision-makers answer for what that organization has done and intends to do for abused children in Australia.

It's of course understandable to give Jackson some room to deal with his aged ailing parent. But what of the thousands of children exposed to Watchtower's inept and torturous policies? I thought JWs don't sorrow as the rest because, after all, they have such firm hope on a resurrection. Right? So why should Jackson not be summoned to speak for a policy for which he sits on the organization's ultimate decision authority?

Better get that summons on the way, and now!

239

Royal Commission Live Hearing Now

by LostinJapan in

wednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.

case study 29, july 2015, sydney.

Marvin Shilmer

If we believe Toole then Watchtower's legal department does not have the foggiest idea what Watchtower's service department does, and this despite constantly harping away about "the organization".

WHAT exactly is ORGANIZED about an arrangement of two departments that supposedly act in concert yet one has no idea what the other does or how it does it?

This guy Toole perfectly demonstrates the maze of mumbo jumbo JWs with serious questions have to navigate only to come away with nothing.

15

Another Elder has developed amnesia.

by umbertoecho in

the elder just being questioned is yet another sly manufacturer of deceit and the use of theocratic warfare.. how can these men say the can't remember when it's their own letters, their own implemented policies.

hell, it's their own books and magazines the commission is using, along with internal letters etc.

another dry mouth there........as he sat up all alone and experienced first hand the faith building experience of ....speaking with a thick tongue as all his juices dried up.........

Marvin Shilmer

Oh, and the questioning about letting the pervert go home and live in the same house with his other two smaller children was just spot on. Watchtower does not give a hoot about protecting children. Not one hoot. Watchtower is a business. It's run like a business, and it's run to protect that business.

15

Another Elder has developed amnesia.

by umbertoecho in

the elder just being questioned is yet another sly manufacturer of deceit and the use of theocratic warfare.. how can these men say the can't remember when it's their own letters, their own implemented policies.

hell, it's their own books and magazines the commission is using, along with internal letters etc.

another dry mouth there........as he sat up all alone and experienced first hand the faith building experience of ....speaking with a thick tongue as all his juices dried up.........

Marvin Shilmer

This elder's memory lapse is not credible. From 25 years ago he could remember a man was guilty of looking up someone's skirt but he could not recall what the same man did that left him believing he was guilty of child molestation. The man is a liar insofar as I can tell. The whole Watchtower system is loaded with rot from one end to the other.

236

Royal Commission live streamingstarting soon!

by possum in

august.

mon 3 (cont) fri 7 .

public hearing: case study 29 into jehovah's witnesses, sydney.

Marvin Shilmer

Does anyone know who the blonde gal is sitting in the background?

PS: Am I the only one who's noticed that none of these elders being questioned so far know how to pronounce the word "congregation"? I get so tired of hearing each and every one of them say "coregation".

236

Royal Commission live streamingstarting soon!

by possum in

august.

mon 3 (cont) fri 7 .

public hearing: case study 29 into jehovah's witnesses, sydney.

Marvin Shilmer

This guy being questioned right now is either a fool because he's utterly stupid or else he's a fool because someone at Watchtower has asked him to look like a fool and he's obeying the instruction.

Also, the 2010 Pay Attention elder book contains a real conundrum for elders. On one hand it stipulates categorically that "Elders will not criticize anyone (ANYONE!!!) who reports [child abuse] to the authorities." If that's true then elders can report child abuse to authorities and he wil not be criticized."--(parenthetical emphasis added)

53

Just wrote my DA letter....

by dubstepped in

jw
friends

my wife and i planned on fading but the elders now want a shepherding call and we are just done.

i know that many play the game to try to stay in, but i'm not a game player and neither is my wife.

our families already shun us because we reached out to a disfellowshipped family member.

Marvin Shilmer

So, what's the process? We send our letter to a few elders to make sure it is received. How long until they announce?
If you're decided to submit a letter of disassociation then I say go ahead and have some kind of fun with it.
You could send it to Watchtower and ask it to forward it to whoever is supposed to get it. In this case I'd make Watchtower's policy for dealing with child molestation front and center, and keep it simple and very, very factual and very, very precise. Then let Watchtower send your letter to local elders.
Alternately you could phone up one of Barbara Anderson's friends at Reveal (a media resource) and tell them you want to submit your letter of disassociation to them and have them deliver it to local elders for you. Either way, you'll have some fun doing what you want to do anyway.